Your 'God' really knows how to pray..
36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37.He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled38. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." 40. Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.
41. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." 42. He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43. When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.45. Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Do you pray the way he did?
To think again, why is he praying if he is God? @_@
11 comments:
From the beginning, our God of love desired to exist in relationship with another. He didn't need others but He wanted to exist in relationships because He was an ever-loving God, who desired to give more than anything else.
Hence, from the beginning, He existed in relationship with "The Son" and "The Holy Spirit". This communion of three entities of the same person forms The Trinity and stand as the model all human persons are called to live by. By this, i mean, though you and i are different, though husband and wife are two different individuals, we are called to live in union, the wife and husband are called to become one entity and not two different individuals.
So, when Jesus prayed, He was in the presence of God, the Father, the entity with whom He existed with from the beginning. He lived in communion with the Father, even as He was in human form on earth, and so he prayed (which is basically being in God's presence and in communion with him), conversing with His Father, the other half, sharing his pain and fear for the road ahead.
Jesus, was God made man, came down to earth, because God realised we were incapable of working for our own salvation. By coming down to earth, He made himself as man were. Though equal to God, the Father, He did not cling on to His equality, rather in humility He accepted the will of Father.
Just wanted to share the Christian view.
Hey there just-a-friend,
So if Jesus prays, does God the Father prays too?
Secondly, as a Christian, do you pray the way Jesus prayed?
***
What interest me the most is the way Jesus prayed. The way Jesus prayed is the same way that Abraham, Moses and all the previous prophets was taught to pray. When they prayed they place their foreheads on the ground in total submission to God.
From my understanding I assume that Jesus was a Muslim since the way he prayed was the same way as we Muslims pray.
Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,"
Genesis 17:17 "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?"
Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Numbers 16:20-22 "And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?"
Joshua 5:14 "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"
Ezekiel 9:8 "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?"
2 Chronicles 20:18 "And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD."
Ezekiel 11:13 "And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?"
Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."
Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
When you said that Jesus, was God made man, the bible says
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”
Hosea 11:9 “...For I am God, and not man...”
Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible:
John 8:40 “…a man who has told you the truth…”
Acts 2:22 “Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.”
Acts 17:31 “He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed”
Hence Jesus is not God if we are following what the Bible said literally..agree?
He denied that he is God in the Bible:
Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, “Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Jesus did not teach people that he was God. If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.
In respond when you said that Jesus and God are equal, the bible says
John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”
John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
"God realised we were incapable of working for our own salvation."
The Bible says
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: EVERY MAN SHALL BE PUT ON TO DEATH FOR THEIR OWN SIN.” (Deuteronomy 24:16)
Is salvation needed then?
Correct me if im wrong, appreciate your explanations :)
PS: It would be better to address you with your own name than calling you just-a-friend, WHO ARE YOU? :P
Definition: Prayer (in context) should be taken as a form of communication with God.
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
In this sense, the word pray is taken to mean “communication with God”. Thus, it must first be clear that it is not wrong for anyone to pray. This, however, leads to a second question, namely, why does God (Jesus) have to communicate with God? At first glance, this would seem as if God needs to talk to Himself. However, when viewed from the Christian perspective, this is not impossible due to the Trinitarian nature of God. Islamic theology puts a strict emphasis on the singularity of God. Therefore, to view God as being Trinitarian is not only unacceptable but also offensive.
In the spirit of sheer curiosity and willingness to dialogue, It must first and foremost be stated that the study of a particular religion cannot be done under the viewpoint or applied context of the learner.
It must be done under the context of the religion being studied in itself, namely by applying its own laws, customs, traditions and practices. Thus, the Islamic concept of ‘strict singularity’ cannot be used to study or make implications on Christianity.
Having said that, how do the Christians understand the nature of God? Christianity, like Islam and other monotheistic faiths, hold that there is only One God. However, the Christological view of the Oneness of God is not the same as the singularity of God as seen in Islamic theology.
In Christianity, God is seen as singular and yet Trinitarian at the same time. Christians hold that God is a Trinity, the mutual existence of three Persons as One God. This understanding, though tempting to be viewed as otherwise, is not polytheism simply because there is not three gods but One God.
However, the perfect oneness of this One God does not contradict the fact that God is three Persons. Christians recognize the three Persons of this Trinity as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. These three exist in perfect unity. Thus, it is not wrong for one Person of the Trinity (Jesus) to communicate(pray) with another.
Appreciate your curiosity and quest for knowledge. Just remember, the basic rule to understanding the beliefs of another is to avoid imposing our own religious understanding (in this case the singularity of God in Islam) unto the the belief of another. All quest for knowledge should be impartial, unemotional and objective. Thus, it would only make sense if we study the beliefs of another in its own context and not our own.
Definition: Prayer (in context) should be taken as a form of communication with God.
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
In this sense, the word pray is taken to mean “communication with God”. Thus, it must first be clear that it is not wrong for anyone to pray. This, however, leads to a second question, namely, why does God (Jesus) have to communicate with God? At first glance, this would seem as if God needs to talk to Himself. However, when viewed from the Christian perspective, this is not impossible due to the Trinitarian nature of God. Islamic theology puts a strict emphasis on the singularity of God. Therefore, to view God as being Trinitarian is not only unacceptable but also offensive.
In the spirit of sheer curiosity and willingness to dialogue, It must first and foremost be stated that the study of a particular religion cannot be done under the viewpoint or applied context of the learner.
It must be done under the context of the religion being studied in itself, namely by applying its own laws, customs, traditions and practices. Thus, the Islamic concept of ‘strict singularity’ cannot be used to study or make implications on Christianity.
Having said that, how do the Christians understand the nature of God? Christianity, like Islam and other monotheistic faiths, hold that there is only One God. However, the Christological view of the Oneness of God is not the same as the singularity of God as seen in Islamic theology.
In Christianity, God is seen as singular and yet Trinitarian at the same time. Christians hold that God is a Trinity, the mutual existence of three Persons as One God. This understanding, though tempting to be viewed as otherwise, is not polytheism simply because there is not three gods but One God.
However, the perfect oneness of this One God does not contradict the fact that God is three Persons. Christians recognize the three Persons of this Trinity as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. These three exist in perfect unity. Thus, it is not wrong for one Person of the Trinity (Jesus) to communicate(pray) with another.
Appreciate your curiosity and quest for knowledge. Just remember, the basic rule to understanding the beliefs of another is to avoid imposing our own religious understanding (in this case the singularity of God in Islam) unto the the belief of another. All quest for knowledge should be impartial, unemotional and objective. Thus, it would only make sense if we study the beliefs of another in its own context and not our own.
For your second query, as to how Jesus be God when he is man, I must say I acknowledge your witty use of the Bible verses to show a seeming contradiction within the Bible. The verses you have used points out to God being God and not man. However, the entire perception that is in question has to be returned again to its original context. Referring back to the Trinitarian nature of God as understood by Christianity, God is three persons in One God.
When the bible refers to God as being God and not man, this reference is usually in view of God the Father (as mostly portrayed in the Old Testament). God the Father, the first person in the Trinity is not a man. He is pure Spirit. Thus, the verses you quote attest to this nature of God.
Secondly, the verses you have quoted from the New Testament which seems to oppose the view of Jesus being God, is actually not an attack against the divinity (Godliness) of Jesus but rather an affirmation of the humanity of the same Jesus. Thus, this introduces us into another doctrine of Christianity, which teaches that Christ is both God and Man. He is not part God or part man, but full God and Full man. Again (just like the concept of the Trinity), this concept seems to propose obstacles to human reason. However, it must be noted that the Christian understanding of theology is a human science, an attempt to fathom the unfathomable. Thus, restriction of human reason is by no means a restriction in the nature of God. A Christian accepts some truths simply on the basis of its Revelation by God. The peak of this revelation occurs through Christ and is known through the gospel.
As a conclusion, the Christian understanding of the nature of Christ should be understood within the Christian context. Christianity holds that Christ is both God and man. Thus, it is not controversial for a Christian to acknowledge Christ as a man, but he also acknowledges him as God.
Furthermore, there are many other Bible verses in which Christ attests that He is God. Of course, this is more evident through studying of the Scriptures, in which bible verses need to be always viewed in context of the entire passage and the entire Bible, and not in isolation on its own. Only when studied in such a way, will we be able to ascertain the deeper Truth and message within the Bible.
Rev 21: 6 "And he [Jesus Christ] said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, 'My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.' Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them,... 'For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.... For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself'"
John 10:28-39-"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
Finally, just to let you know, the only reason I withhold my name from you for now, is to avoid any pre-formed misconceptions in interpreting the message that I am sharing with you because of your knowledge of who I am. With time, I will definitely let you know who I am. :)
"Just remember, the basic rule to understanding the beliefs of another is to avoid imposing our own religious understanding (in this case the singularity of God in Islam) unto the the belief of another. All quest for knowledge should be impartial, unemotional and objective. Thus, it would only make sense if we study the beliefs of another in its own context and not our own"
Fair enough..agreed..
"...Christianity, like Islam and other monotheistic faiths, hold that there is only One God."
"This understanding, though tempting to be viewed as otherwise, is not polytheism simply because there is not three gods but One God."
A friend once told me that Christianity is not monotheism but a polytheism..so which one is the correct one?
PS: Are you a Christian by the way?
Dear Fitrah,
Christianity is, without a doubt, monotheistic. It is because many do not truly understand the Trinitarian nature of God, as believed by Christians, that they claim Christianity to be polytheistic.
And yes, I am a Christian. A very blessed one indeed as God made many avenues for me to better understand Christianity.
I am really glad that we managed to have an open, and peaceful exchange of information on the matter.
God bless. :)
Looking forward for more discussion :)
God bless :)
PS: Im still curious :p
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